Center Channel Question - big difference between movies and TV

[Gracepreacher]

Hey all-

I use OTA TV and have a basic 5.1 setup. I've pieced it together over the years on a shoe string budget, and unfortunately the weakest link right now is the center channel (Center is a Sony SS-CN550h, Fronts - Polk Monitor 60's, Surrounds - Polk Monitor 30's). I've never been satisfied with the center channel sound, but I notice it so much more on movies (DVD and Bluray) than I do with broadcast TV. While, the audio isn't as pristine with OTA HDTV, I can definitely hear and understand the dialogue well. But with movies, it seems subdued, soft, sometimes even unintelligible. An obvious suggestion might be to turn up the center, but honestly, though that makes it louder, it doesn't make it any clearer. Does anyone know why there is such a difference between these two sources? (by the way, I'm saying "movies" as a source, which actually come from a separate DVD player {ran via optical} or Bluray player {ran via 5.1 analog}) Would a new center channel take care of this?

[MrBoylan]

Hey all-

I use OTA TV and have a basic 5.1 setup. I've pieced it together over the years on a shoe string budget, and unfortunately the weakest link right now is the center channel (Center is a Sony SS-CN550h, Fronts - Polk Monitor 60's, Surrounds - Polk Monitor 30's). I've never been satisfied with the center channel sound, but I notice it so much more on movies (DVD and Bluray) than I do with broadcast TV. While, the audio isn't as pristine with OTA HDTV, I can definitely hear and understand the dialogue well. But with movies, it seems subdued, soft, sometimes even unintelligible. An obvious suggestion might be to turn up the center, but honestly, though that makes it louder, it doesn't make it any clearer. Does anyone know why there is such a difference between these two sources? (by the way, I'm saying "movies" as a source, which actually come from a separate DVD player {ran via optical} or Bluray player {ran via 5.1 analog}) Would a new center channel take care of this?

Broadcast sources tend to have more compression in the digital signal than DVD or Blu-ray. This compressed dynamic range is actually more forgiving of bad equipment than a full range, more dynamic signal that you'd get from Blu-ray and DVD because it doesn't make as many demands on the speaker. Yes, getting a new center channel speaker is your best solution, preferably a Polk with drivers similar to your main left/right speakers. You really want to try for as close a sonic match as possible across the front three speakers for best results. Otherwise a Harley turns into a Honda then back into a Harley as it makes its way across the room.

For movie-watching, the center is really the most important channel in the system as that is where the dialog is reproduced and intelligible dialog does tend to add a certain appeal to movies. Well except for anything made by George Lucas after Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - the prequels actually might be more enjoyable without the dialog. I'll have to try that next time one of them comes on.

For $120 you can get a Polk CS10 center channel speaker that would probably be an excellent match for your main speakers:

Polk CS10 on amazon.com - $120 shipped

If it fits your space and budget then go for it.

BTW, you could engage dynamic range (DRC) on your Blu-ray Player and/or on your receiver, which would compress the dynamic range of movies, and would equalize the levels between loud and quiet parts. But really all this is doing is masking the real problem (a crappy center channel speaker), and it lessens the dynamics and overall attack of the system. I would only recommend DRC for watching movies late night when family or neighbors are sleeping. But a new center channel speaker will improve things all around, for TV and for movie viewing.

Oh, and just checking but you have your OTA tuner (or the TV's built-in OTA tuner) connected directly to your receiver via optical digital, right? Because this would be the only way to get a true 5.1 discrete soundtrack from OTA broadcasts.

-CB

[Gracepreacher]

Chris,

Once again, I'm amazed by your thoroughness in your responses. Thank you so much.

The Polk CS10 is exactly what I had chosen, but I did not want to load the question...you walked right into my little "confirmation trap"! That makes total sense (about the OTA compression). I LOVE how audio principles work together...I'm familiar with compression as a recording technique in the studio, but compression, dynamic range...these terms mean the same thing...sometimes compression is a great tool (such as in vocals in the studio, or watching movies late at night) and other times it's a total SQUASHER of a good tone! And with so many things...too much of a good thing can be a very bad thing.

In answer to your question, I do have an optical digital cable running to my receiver and I'm getting 5.1.

While we're opening the bag of a system tune-up: I've tried bi-amping the Polk Monitor 60 fronts using the remaining two channels of my VSX-815, but I did not notice a difference. I saw no need to drive the amp if it didn't seem to matter, so I undid it. Should I have noticed a difference?

Oh, and a small trick for the cheapos like me...the CS10 can be had for $20 less in cherry, but if you plan on leaving the grill on (which I do), there is no visual difference!

Chris

[MrBoylan]

If your Polks have separate inputs for woofer and tweeter, then bi-amplification using two discrete amplifiers can open up the sound a bit by providing each driver (or set of drivers) with its own dedicated amp. But it's rarely a huge night and day difference in sound.

Good tip on the Polk CS10 for $99.99 in Cherry! Quite a deal for a nice center channel speaker:

Polk CS10 on Amazon.com - $99.99 shipped (Cherry only)

Good luck and let us know how everything turns out with the new center and the subwoofer tweaks.

-CB

[Gracepreacher]

I'm having a hard time finding the time to really mess with the sub. However, by ear, I'm satisfied for the time being (with the speaker level inputs). I'm able to get a decent bass level, I don't have to manually adjust the sub to use the bluray player, and there is no extra noise.

As far as the center channel, I finally got the Polk CS10 and there is an improvement. BUT, the bigger problem (all along) is that almost an inch of the drivers are being blocked by a trim piece on our armoire cabinet. I'm not sure how I missed that when I installed the last one years ago, but that would explain the muffle/tunnel sound I'm getting, regardless of what center speaker I put there. I wasn't able to remedy the situation...again...time ran out, but I guess I'm going to have to modify the dang thing.

[MrBoylan]

I'm having a hard time finding the time to really mess with the sub. However, by ear, I'm satisfied for the time being (with the speaker level inputs). I'm able to get a decent bass level, I don't have to manually adjust the sub to use the bluray player, and there is no extra noise.

Sounds like a good start.

As far as the center channel, I finally got the Polk CS10

Hmm... that's odd. I didn't see an order for it in our Amazon reports. Guess you didn't use our link to order it, huh?

and there is an improvement. BUT, the bigger problem (all along) is that almost an inch of the drivers are being blocked by a trim piece on our armoire cabinet. I'm not sure how I missed that when I installed the last one years ago, but that would explain the muffle/tunnel sound I'm getting, regardless of what center speaker I put there. I wasn't able to remedy the situation...again...time ran out, but I guess I'm going to have to modify the dang thing.

Well good luck with that. If it's a trim piece at the bottom of where the speaker is located, then you could try raising the center up with some sorbothane feet, but only if you have clearance for that. You should make sure that the speaker is out as far forward as possible. Even without wood directly in front of the drivers you will get a hollow echoing sound if the sound is bouncing off the inside of the cabinet on the sides.

-CB

[Gracepreacher]

No, I did not buy it from Amazon. You can't sue me for that, right?

The trim piece is along the top of the speaker, and there is NO extra room. So I either get that piece off, raise the entire shelf (that holds the TV) so it is out of the way, or I live with it. Living with it seems like a foolish shame.

[MrBoylan]

No, I did not buy it from Amazon. You can't sue me for that, right?

Nope. But I don't have to answer your questions in my "free" time either.

Good luck with your woodworking project.

[blakelyc]

Nope. But I don't have to answer your questions in my "free" time either.

Good luck with your woodworking project.

I found your site by googling around for research information. After this one statement, I will no longer use this site or follow any links to or from it. If you want to make money, charge for the forum. Aside from that, your users are not your "customers" and don't owe you anything.

Good Day.

[MrBoylan]

I found your site by googling around for research information. After this one statement, I will no longer use this site or follow any links to or from it. If you want to make money, charge for the forum. Aside from that, your users are not your "customers" and don't owe you anything.

Good Day.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but this, as all professional and hobby sites, stays in business through the support of its members and its advertisers. If I'm going to spend an hour or two going through technical debugging or making informed product decisions, then I don't think it's inappropriate to ask for members to use our links when they buy online.

I worked in retail for a couple of years and had similar situations where customers would come in, spend an hour or two in the store learning about the gear and getting product recommendations and say they'd be back. A week or two later they'd come in and ask questions about the gear, and tell me they bought it across the street at Circuit City but those guys didn't really have a clue how it worked.

So, yeah, if I spend a bunch of my time answering questions, only to have the member outright say "I followed your recommendation and didn't use your link to buy it" then I will continue to make statements as above. And if you don't like that, well best of luck to you and you're welcome to start your own site like I did 5 years ago.

Regards,

-Chris