PS3 (Slim) cannot bitstream Dolby Digital Plus with Netflix and Vudu apps

[HDGuy]

Even though both these apps were announced with "Dolby Digital Plus" support, for some strange reason they cannot bitstream DD+ audio properly on the PS3 Slim. The Netflix app just transcodes it all down to standard DD 640k and the Vudu app is all screwed up in other ways- it will output in 7.1PCM (even if you're set for bitstreaming).

I don't know what's going on with the Netflix app, but I know for certain that the Vudu app can bitstream HDX audio in Dolby Digital Plus properly on every other platform (ie: if you have a HDMI 1.3 receiver that supports it the DD+ symbol will light up). So I figure there must be some inherent bug in the PS3 that prevents it (Vudu HDX streams even say "DD+" in the on screen info bar). After all, why put out a big PR stating you're going to support something and then not support it?

Hopefully this will be a simple bug-fix like a firmware update, but without a way of contacting Netflix tech-support directly there's no way to know what the deal is (I already sent Vudu tech support an email, so hopefully they're aware of it).

[MrBoylan]

Even though both these apps were announced with "Dolby Digital Plus" support, for some strange reason they cannot bitstream DD+ audio properly on the PS3 Slim. The Netflix app just transcodes it all down to standard DD 640k and the Vudu app is all screwed up in other ways- it will output in 7.1PCM (even if you're set for bitstreaming).

I don't know what's going on with the Netflix app, but I know for certain that the Vudu app can bitstream HDX audio in Dolby Digital Plus properly on every other platform (ie: if you have a HDMI 1.3 receiver that supports it the DD+ symbol will light up). So I figure there must be some inherent bug in the PS3 that prevents it (Vudu HDX streams even say "DD+" in the on screen info bar). After all, why put out a big PR stating you're going to support something and then not support it?

Hopefully this will be a simple bug-fix like a firmware update, but without a way of contacting Netflix tech-support directly there's no way to know what the deal is (I already sent Vudu tech support an email, so hopefully they're aware of it).

Hey, HDGuy,

Thanks for your post and welcome to the forum. I agree that there is something funky going on with the 5.1 streaming implementations on the PS3, but there are a couple of things to keep in mind: a.) The PS3 is the *only* platform to support 5.1 from Netflix, so we should make some allowances for being first, and b.) just because the PS3 can't bitstream DD+ from these sources (yet) doesn't mean that the implementation is significantly flawed.

The primary reason Dolby Digital Plus was selected by Netflix and VUDU was not necessarily to have better sound quality than Dolby Digital (although that is also a potential benefit, of course), but to be able to support 5.1 channel sound *at all* via the low bandwidth connections typically available for internet streaming. Because Dolby Digital Plus is a more efficient codec, with lower and higher bandwidth options available, it is possible to do full 5.1 surround sound with acceptable sound quality over a much lower bandwidth than currently used by Dolby Digital. So the fact that the PS3 is outputting VUDU as PCM 7.1 and Netflix as standard Dolby Digital 640 KBPS does not necessarily mean there is any quality lost in the Dolby Digital Plus signal. But it does indicate a certain lack of flexibility in the PS3's implementation.

On the PS3 "fat" (classic PS3), Dolby Digital Plus cannot be bistreamed from any source so Dolby Digital Plus bistream isn't an option for that particular platform. For Netflix, if you disable the bitstream output on the PS3 then *technically* you should get PCM 5.1 sound (the player should decode DD+ 5.1 to multi-channel PCM) but you don't - you actually get 2-channel PCM. Only by enabling the bitstream output on the PS3 do you get 5.1 surround from compatible content, but it is standard Dolby Digital, not Dolby Digital Plus. They way the Dolby folks have explained it to me, converting Dolby Digital Plus to Dolby Digital can be done via relatively simple transcoding (it's all just math) - there is no need to decode to PCM then re-encode, so there is little loss introduced in this process.

As for VUDU, I personally haven't tested that on the PS3, but if it's coming out as PCM 7.1 then I'm guessing the PS3 is probably decoding then "amplifying" the 5.1 signal to 7.1 either with pure duplication of rear and side channels or by some algorithm that adjusts the output to the rear and side channels. Several Blu-ray players do this with other 5.1 surround signals (notably the Panasonic players when they decode DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 to 7.1 when converted to PCM). Again, not ideal, but something that wouldn't be noticeable at all in a 5.1 channel system, and something that could be regarded as a "feature" in a 7.1 channel system. I agree that a pure bitstream option would also be nice, but I'm not going to rail against the PS3 when Sony keeps upgrading the player to do more and more while competitive standalone players from 3 years (or even 2 years) back, are effectively boat anchors now.

I'll ping a few contacts at Dolby and Sony to see if they have any insight into this. I wouldn't blame Netflix or VUDU as they are almost certainly providing the Dolby Digital Plus signal in the stream (as evidenced by the on-screen display, and the performance of other players that do properly bitstream the Dolby Digital Plus signal). But I know that Dolby is hesitant to criticize any of their hardware and content partners and Sony's SCEA folks are usually pretty tight-lipped and generally unhelpful about clarifying these types of issues. I received exactly *no* response from them when trying to clarify their implementation of Blu-ray 3D support on the PS3) But if I do get any kind of useful response, I will let you know.

Regards,

-Chris

[HDGuy]

According to a response on Vudu's official support fourms, there's a bug in the PS3 that doesn't allow DD+ bitstreaming or 1080p/24
support for anything other than Blu-Ray. That's a bummer because those two features alone are pretty much what makes Vudu so great.

They suggest people contact Sony to offer a fix.

[MrBoylan]

According to a response on Vudu's official support fourms, there's a bug in the PS3 that doesn't allow DD+ bitstreaming or 1080p/24
support for anything other than Blu-Ray. That's a bummer because those two features alone are pretty much what makes Vudu so great.

They suggest people contact Sony to offer a fix.

I talked to Dolby about it but they won't go on record about anything like this. They suggested I contact a specific individual at Sony's gaming group. I've been waiting about 5 days for a reply from him.

-CB

[HDGuy]

I talked to Dolby about it but they won't go on record about anything like this. They suggested I contact a specific individual at Sony's gaming group. I've been waiting about 5 days for a reply from him.

-CB

I tend to believe the Vudu rep who posted that message . Hopefully the person you contacted at Sony will at least acknowledge there's a problem so we can get it fixed. Not having DD+, 1080p/24 support for non-Blu-Ray playback is a real problem.

[MrBoylan]

The response I just got back from Sony was that, "It's not a bug, but we're trying to fix it." Seriously. I don't know what that means either, except that they are aware of the issue and are trying to figure out whether they can make a Dolby Digital Plus bitstream work for non-BD content on the PS3.

He was pretty sketchy on the details but said that for it to be possible, they would need to enable Dolby Digital Plus decoding for all games and application which is apparently not a trivial task.

So no promise for a fix, but at least they have acknowledged it and are working on it.

Again, I'm no apologist for Sony, but I don't see this as a major issue. Dolby Digital Plus to Dolby Digital transcoding (Netflix) introduces pretty minimal loss (unless you're working with really high encoding rates on the DD+ side) and Dolby Digital Plus decoding to PCM introduces *NO* loss as it is a Dolby-ceritifed decoding process.

I'm more bothered by the PS3's inability to pass or decode the lossless codecs when in 3D playback mode. But again, a little perspective helps: I bought this PS3 in 2007. The fact that it can even do Netflix and VUDU at all, as well as doing Blu-ray 3D playback, BD-Live, BonusView, DTS-HD Master audio decoding and a slew of other things that were not possible when the player launched in 2007 is still pretty impressive. Would I like DD+ bitstream output? Sure, but I'm still enjoying my PS3 for Blu-ray movies and more while every other player made in 2007 is now effectively a boat anchor.

And as for 1080p/24 only being enabled for Blu-ray, that's pretty common even in standalone, dedicated Blu-ray players. Only the Panasonic and OPPO players can do 1080p/24 playback on DVDs (unless another one has cropped up lately that can do it). Though I admit I have not tested VUDU on the PAnasonic players to see if they output VUDU DHX content at 60FPS or at 24 FPS. I might check that out later.

-Cb

[MrBoylan]

The response I just got back from Sony was that, "It's not a bug, but we're trying to fix it." Seriously. I don't know what that means either, except that they are aware of the issue and are trying to figure out whether they can make a Dolby Digital Plus bitstream work for non-BD content on the PS3.

He was pretty sketchy on the details but said that for it to be possible, they would need to enable Dolby Digital Plus decoding for all games and application which is apparently not a trivial task.

So no promise for a fix, but at least they have acknowledged it and are working on it.

Again, I'm no apologist for Sony, but I don't see this as a major issue. Dolby Digital Plus to Dolby Digital transcoding (Netflix) introduces pretty minimal loss (unless you're working with really high encoding rates on the DD+ side) and Dolby Digital Plus decoding to PCM introduces *NO* loss as it is a Dolby-certified decoding process.

I'm more bothered by the PS3's inability to pass or decode the lossless codecs when in 3D playback mode. But again, a little perspective helps: I bought this PS3 in 2007. The fact that it can even do Netflix and VUDU at all, as well as doing Blu-ray 3D playback, BD-Live, BonusView, DTS-HD Master audio decoding and a slew of other things that were not possible when the player launched in 2007 is still pretty impressive. Would I like DD+ bitstream output? Sure, but I'm still enjoying my PS3 for Blu-ray movies and more while every other player made in 2007 is now effectively a boat anchor.

And as for 1080p/24 only being enabled for Blu-ray, that's pretty common even in standalone, dedicated Blu-ray players. Only the Panasonic and OPPO players can do 1080p/24 playback on DVDs (unless another one has cropped up lately that can do it). Though I admit I have not tested VUDU on the Panasonic players that extensively to see if they output VUDU HDX content at 60FPS or at 24 FPS. I might check that out later.

-CB