DVD Upconversion on LG BD570 to LG LH90

[rceracreations]

Just a question in terms of DVD up conversion...

For the most part Im pretty satisfied with DVD up conversion of LG BD 570, although I have heard it is not great at up conversion.
I do notice however, where it is perfectly smooth and super clean... almost Blu Ray quality on close ups and natural lighting, it seems to struggle on mist/greydarker night scenes... looks on several scenes fuzzy or grainy... sometimes very obvious white sparkles...
but then this effect will completely go away during lighter or natural settings scenes.

Im using a decent HDMI cable... which works beautifully on games and Blu Rays... no complaints there at all...
do NOT want to pay ridiculous prices for HDMI cable...

While it doesnt kill me completely to deal with, I was curious as to what this might be... I dont think Im at the point of returning merchandise or going nuts if it's just a matter of the player not interpreting the scenes as well as another might...

there are SO many settings on the LH90 that would probably help to reduce the effect so
am I just asking too much and being a snob at this point?

Anyone have any experience like this?

[chiarella]

Hi there. I can say that during my review time with the LG BD570 I found the DVD upconversion to be adequate if not stupendous. Not sure what content you are looking at when seeing the white sparkles, but keep in mind that dark and/or misty scenes are a challenge for any player, while well-lit scenes or detail-rich closeups tend to fare better.

[MrBoylan]

In addition to what Chris said, I'd echo that I haven't heard of that specific problem with this player but it could vary based on content. There are numerous settings on the TV that could minimize or exacerbate this kind of problem, but I definitely find that a well calibrated TV shows far fewer artifacts with SD content than a poorly calibrated one. Specifically, make sure that motion interpolation is low, that you are in THX mode or Cinema mode with lights low when watching movies, and that the sharpness control is not too high. The default sharpness control is usually up around 2/3 or 3/4 of maximum where on most TVs, it should be down around 1/4 of the maximum for the most accurate picture. Otherwise edge enhancement can kick in which gives everything a hyper sharp and sometimes grainy look. You'd also see some haloing or doubled edges if the sharpness control is set too high.

I have specifically seen sparklies (bright white sparkles) occasionally when getting a bad HDMI cable. But this doesn't mean you have to spend $80 to get decent performance. The Amazon Basics HDMI cables have held up well to my testing and I generally give them out to friends who need cables. Here's a link to their 2-meter basic HDMI cable:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B001T9NUJE

Good luck!

-Chris

[rceracreations]

Dear Chris...

Thank you so much for your suggestions and expertise...
in fact... let me be more specific.
Last night noted the same effect on 1080i broadcast of David Letterman show on my LG LH90...
pan shot of the crowd in dark with little detail, in other words a very muted looking image...
the graininess existed there in the "grey" areas and sparkles...

it just so happens I ma not an expert of course! The LH90 has wonderful picture controls... but it is rather difficult for a layman to determine what "should be best" versus what looks best on most occassions...
I actually prefer the VIVID settings used for display moreso than the standards or THX...LH90 THX looks dull and greyish and does not allow for tweaking.

as for V and H sharpness... I started with an expert setting which I love in most cases/scenes... but my numbers I kicked up rather high... somewhere around 75% on both... not sure if there is an outright discernable difference if oI were to go lower... but I figured I wanted to boost it due to the capabilities of the TV...

I also have Edge enhancement on HIGH... my backlight is high around 85-90 percent...
I dont generally use the Trumotion 240 upconversion ass I cant stand the "floating" and artifacts it creates at times...

So Im probably answering the problem arent I? I have the TV set to hyper specs in terms of sharpness and edge enhancement etc. backlight is probably enhancing those sparklies as well!

Reason this came up in the first place, was the same content did not produce the effect using a PS3 on a standard LCD 60mhz Sony Bravia 40 inch vs the much more advanced LH90 at 47.... but that TV is not tweaked as I believe it is in standard mode...
LOL (the wife's TV, and she wont allow me to get my hands on it to tweak the picture! LOL)

ANy more suffestions or advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Russ

[MrBoylan]

Hi, Russ,

Well everything you talk about doing - setting the picture mode to vivid, using edge enhancement, backlight high, etc. will exarcerbate the worst digital artifacts and make the flaws in the set's technology and processing much more obvious. Although you may find the image "pleasing" to look at, it is not accurate. What I would suggest is taking a look at David Katzmeier's settings for the TV in his CNET review of the LH90. You can find those here:

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-349354.html

Plug them into your TV. Leave the settings alone for a couple of days and watch some content you're familiar with: Blu-ray, DVD, etc. The key is that, for those settings to be correct, you really need to control the lighting in your viewing room, so leave the lights low during the "Adjustment period."

What most people find, after viewing a properly calibrated TV for an extended period, is that it might look dimmer and a bit softer, compared to the exaggerated settings you're used to, but you'll start to notice fine details and depth to the image that you never knew was there before. When you crank the contrast and backlight, you crush out the fine detail in the whites and in the blacks and shadows, and this leads to a bright, punchy, but ultimately 2-dimensional and unrealistic picture, riddled with artifacts and added noise.

Give it a try using these settings, try to resist the temptation to adjust anything for a couple of days, and see how you like it (and also see if the nasty digital artifacts subside). You can always go back to the hideous cartoonish vivid mode if you decide you prefer it (can you tell I have strong opinions on the subject?).

Anyway... whatever looks best to you is best, but keep an open mind and you might find that an "accurate" picture is actually better.

Regards,

-Chris

[rceracreations]

Hi Chris!

Thank you for all the advice!
Yeah, Im just getting used to the large size and LED backlight caps vs. a smaller 32 inch standard LCD

What I will do is plug these settings into the Expert 2 mode and note the differences!
Ill start to peel back on my other setting a bit but if I get the urge to watch Avatar Ill use my oversaturated
settings! LOLOL

Great TV... only downer is the Trumotion not splitting anti blur and dejudder...
I like the effect at times... but cant stand when something flutters and I hear comments from
others and the guy on my shoulder!

Russ

[rceracreations]

Hello Chris!

A final note on this subject...
I applied settings as prescribed at CNET (which is mostly the STANDARD mode on television)
was not exactly sure how to apply the 10 point IE color mods, but I didnt notice a great deal of change in doing so...

Great part is that I applied it to EXpert 2, so I can switch back and forth when and if I wish to.
YES, my settings were OVERBLOWN... and I did notice the effect was much less visible (of course I am also talking about
1080i source rather than 1080 p where I have not seen the effect on Blu Ray... nor do I expect to...

the overall look was a bit softer with the changes as well

One note I will make... the image produced by the settings lacked a good punchy white... everyone loves to note about the
need for DEEP blacks, which this set does very well on the right settings, but few seem to note the desire for true bright whites.

I prefer dynamic contrast ON over off... it provides the deeper black and the brighter true white...
On the settings prescribed by most, whites seem to be a dullish light grey tone...

I did reduce my sharpness and backlight... but feel the urge to keep pumping that backlight up...

after all, with it lower, the set starts to resemble a standard LCD rather than the super contrast ratios with the backlight up that a backlit LED is so good with.

Overall this is a beautiful set for an amazing price... now that it is no longer in circulation. But I do wish the 240 Trumotion was perfected technology... I keep it set to off, which reduces the actual process to 60 of 120 mhz correct?

Thanks again for conversating!

Russ

[mwkeeler]

Hi, Russ,

Well everything you talk about doing - setting the picture mode to vivid, using edge enhancement, backlight high, etc. will exarcerbate the worst digital artifacts and make the flaws in the set's technology and processing much more obvious. Although you may find the image "pleasing" to look at, it is not accurate. What I would suggest is taking a look at David Katzmeier's settings for the TV in his CNET review of the LH90. You can find those here:

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-349354.html

Plug them into your TV. Leave the settings alone for a couple of days and watch some content you're familiar with: Blu-ray, DVD, etc. The key is that, for those settings to be correct, you really need to control the lighting in your viewing room, so leave the lights low during the "Adjustment period."



Anyway... whatever looks best to you is best, but keep an open mind and you might find that an "accurate" picture is actually better.

Regards,

-Chris

This is outstanding information! When you go to Best Buy or other big box stores you have to wonder if they calibrate their TVs to boost the contrast and tickle the viewers eyes.

I am in the market for a new HDTV to match up to my BD570. I am going to take this post to heart and calibrate it correctly.

Chris, any suggestions on calibrating computer monitors in the same fashion? I have a Samsung LED backlit monitor.

[mwkeeler]

Hello Chris!

One note I will make... the image produced by the settings lacked a good punchy white... everyone loves to note about the
need for DEEP blacks, which this set does very well on the right settings, but few seem to note the desire for true bright whites.

I prefer dynamic contrast ON over off... it provides the deeper black and the brighter true white...
On the settings prescribed by most, whites seem to be a dullish light grey tone...

I did reduce my sharpness and backlight... but feel the urge to keep pumping that backlight up...

after all, with it lower, the set starts to resemble a standard LCD rather than the super contrast ratios with the backlight up that a backlit LED is so good with.

Overall this is a beautiful set for an amazing price... now that it is no longer in circulation. But I do wish the 240 Trumotion was perfected technology... I keep it set to off, which reduces the actual process to 60 of 120 mhz correct?

Thanks again for conversating!

Russ

Russ,

I have yet to do this with my set as I am getting a new one. Thanks for the feedback on what you truly want to see. At the end of the day, we are going to calibrate our TVs to please our eyes. I like Chris's idea about calibrating it correctly and letting it stay that way for a few days.

I have a little opinion that may or may not relate. As a child, I detested coffee and other adult beverages. As I aged, I learned to drink coffee in moderation and enjoy the minor nuances of different regional beans. It was an aquired taste. I began to roast my green coffee beans. I now know there is both good coffee and bad coffee. Even my brewing methods changed to optimize the taste. Now when I go to Starbucks or other chain, I really cannot drink the beverage because of their brewing, grinding, and roasting (all are calibration methods) methods.

It has to be similar with calibrating our home entertainment systems. We have been programed by the corporations to accept what the masses are doing.

[MrBoylan]

This is outstanding information! When you go to Best Buy or other big box stores you have to wonder if they calibrate their TVs to boost the contrast and tickle the viewers eyes.

I am in the market for a new HDTV to match up to my BD570. I am going to take this post to heart and calibrate it correctly.

Chris, any suggestions on calibrating computer monitors in the same fashion? I have a Samsung LED backlit monitor.

As long as either the monitor or the software that came with the video card has picture adjustments then you can calibrate a computer monitor similarly to a TV. However, the ideal color saturation, contrast and color temperature settings for a monitor, which is used for viewing documents, photos, web sites for extended periods and for a display for watching movies can be quite different.

For movie viewing, the color white should be 6500K (D65) or as close to that as possible in order to match what the director intended. But to prevent eye strain, you might calibrate a computer monitor to 5500K (which is roughly the color of pure white in sugnlight) or to 6000. You also might want the contrast a little lower for extended viewing on a monitor.

Probably the best option is to store at least two different color profiles on your computer for movie-watching vs. standard computer work. And if you are connecting the BD570 or some other BD player to an HDMI or DVI input on the monitor then you will be limited to whatever color managenemt tools are built into the monitor itself (As opposed to software on the PC).

Check out the Color Vision products on Amazon:

Color Vision Spyder and SpyderTV products on Amazon.com

These come with a basic colorimeter tool that can help you measure the light output and characteristics of your monitor or TV and calibrate it based on your desired specs.

I'm pretty sure the colorimeter "puck" can be used with either software package, but the SpyderTV software is specifically for calibrating TVs and home theater displays while the regular "Spyder" kits are for calibrating computer monitors.

Good luck,

-Chris