BD-80 Installed and working!

[Daylightdon]

Between yesterday and today I was able to install my Panasonic BD-80 into my Home AV system.
The actual placement and connect time was maybe 30 minutes. But what I had to do to be able to do that was a BIG job.
My AV system consists of a 6 piece entertainment center. I had to disassemble most of it to get to the back of it which sits about 5 inches from the wall. I also installed a new Triplett surge protector with lots of outlets.

(When the Entertainment center was delivered 2 years ago, I had to install wheels on each section of the three main sections so that I could be able to move it out from the wall. The bases of the three main sections had to be reinforced to be able to mount the wheels. The wheels and reinforcement had to artfully hidden because I have a wife and we have company from time to time. It took two days to accomplish that task.)

Back to the Blu-ray player. I opted to connect it for nearly total operation except for the Video which will always be HDMI. The Audio, I wanted to be able to try it both ways; that is, let the Denon 3808 do the processing and be able to switch over and let the BD-80 do the processing. I also connected an Optical cable and a Cat-5 cable to my wireless router.

I powered up, went through to initial setup procedures, dropped in the disc tray RAY CHARLES, "LIVE AT MONTREUX".

Well let me tell you, I was blown away not just by the pristine 1080P picture on my Panasonic 42" Plasma, but the sound was as close to a live concert as you can get. My Denon was cranked up and my McIntosh 7270 which drives my left and right Definitive Technology, BP 10's was groovin'!

Watched and listened for about 10 minutes and switched over to the Panasonic DTS processor and was very surprised when the "LIVENESS" was gone. The sound lost the feel of being there and I've seen Ray Charles, twice in person so I know what it's like to "BE THERE"!

Not sure why the pronounced difference between the Denon processor and the Panasonic???

Well the rest of the evening was spent watching the Godfather, which was far better than SD, both sound and picture.

This A.M., while doing the final touches to the living room and putting stuff away I watched "DRUMLINE", which is a great film even in SD, but in Blu-Ray it is sparkling, both sound and picture!

One minor problem because it does not affect anything was the pink noise speaker test, only put sound throught left & right front speakers. There was nothing from either the side or back surrounds and nothing from the center channel???

Did a full Audessy setup also.
Chris, sing that song for me...."I'm in Heaven...I'm in Heaven>>>

[MrBoylan]

Between yesterday and today I was able to install my Panasonic BD-80 into my Home AV system.

Yay!

The actual placement and connect time was maybe 30 minutes. But what I had to do to be able to do that was a BIG job.

Sounds like a chore but there is always a price to pay for our art...

Back to the Blu-ray player. I opted to connect it for nearly total operation except for the Video which will always be HDMI. The Audio, I wanted to be able to try it both ways; that is, let the Denon 3808 do the processing and be able to switch over and let the BD-80 do the processing. I also connected an Optical cable and a Cat-5 cable to my wireless router.

Your Denon 3808 decodes the new codecs over HDMI, right? If so, the *best* way to hook it all up is HDMI from BD80 to Denon receiver, and from there out to TV also via HDMI. Anything else is going to be a compromise in either sound quality, picture quality or both. There is no need to hook up an optical cable or multi-channel analog unless you just like playing around with these things for some reason. But doing a comparison of the BD80's multi-channel analog out to the Denon doing the decoding via optical would be an unfair comparion since you cannot pass DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD over optical and you'd be getting the degraded lossy core mix instead of the enhanced lossless soundtrack.

I powered up, went through to initial setup procedures, dropped in the disc tray RAY CHARLES, "LIVE AT MONTREUX".

Well let me tell you, I was blown away not just by the pristine 1080P picture on my Panasonic 42" Plasma, but the sound was as close to a live concert as you can get. My Denon was cranked up and my McIntosh 7270 which drives my left and right Definitive Technology, BP 10's was groovin'!

If it sounds good, then there's certainly no arguing with that.

Watched and listened for about 10 minutes and switched over to the Panasonic DTS processor and was very surprised when the "LIVENESS" was gone. The sound lost the feel of being there and I've seen Ray Charles, twice in person so I know what it's like to "BE THERE"!

Not sure why the pronounced difference between the Denon processor and the Panasonic???

Again, it depends on how you have everything connected. If you have HDMI connected from the player to the receiver as you should and you have set the BD80 digital outputs to BITSTREAM with BD-SECONDARY AUDIO to OFF, then the Denon is decoding the full lossless surround sound track and it should sound excellent. For that Ray Charles disc, the lossless surround track is Dolby TrueHD (not DTS), so if your Denon says anything other than "Dolby TrueHD" in its display then it is not getting the lossless bitstream from the player. The only way it can get the lossless bitstream from the player is via HDMI.

If you also connected the multi-channel analog connections to the player then you can get the benefits of lossless sound that way (with the BD80 decoding the Dolby TrueHD to analog), but you will need to manually adjust the speaker levels, delay and speaker sizes in the BD80's speaker configuration menu *and* you will get none of the EQ and level benefits of Audyssey if you hook it up this way (the Audyssey settings are not applied to the multi-channel analog inputs).

Well the rest of the evening was spent watching the Godfather, which was far better than SD, both sound and picture.

This A.M., while doing the final touches to the living room and putting stuff away I watched "DRUMLINE", which is a great film even in SD, but in Blu-Ray it is sparkling, both sound and picture!

I just watched (and listened to) "Drumline" on Blu-ray myself a couple of nights ago and I agree - amazing audio and great visuals, particularly in the marching band performances and drumline battles. Really gives your audio system a work-out.

One minor problem because it does not affect anything was the pink noise speaker test, only put sound throught left & right front speakers. There was nothing from either the side or back surrounds and nothing from the center channel???

Actually, this multi-channel pink noise test is crucial if you're setting the player up for multi-channel analog output as this is the only way you can set levels, delays and speaker sizes. The only way you will hear the information from all 6 or 8 channels is if you are specifically listening to the multi-channel analog outputs. If you go into this screen when you are switched to the Denon's optical input from the BD80 then you'll only get two channels (2-ch PCM).

But also, if you have your HDMI connection plugged directly into your TV, which it sounds like you might, then you may need to set HDMI AUDIO to OFF in the BD80 set-up menu in order to get the test tones through all 6 or 8 channels from the analog outputs. But, again, it goes back to configuration. The simplest connection that will give you the best sound quality is HDMI from BD80 directly to Denon receiver, set BD80's digital output to bitstream (for DTS and Dolby) and turn BD-Secondary Audio OFF. With this connection, you send all the next gen surround codecs to the Denon for processing and you do not have to worry about manually setting speaker levels, etc. in the player. It will all be handled by the Audyssey auto-calibration.

Did a full Audessy setup also.

...which did nothing to the multi-channel analog inputs, though it would benefit the optical and HDMI inputs if you are connecting the player digitally.

Chris, sing that song for me...."I'm in Heaven...I'm in Heaven>>>

Actually truth be told, I'm more of a rocker than a crooner, and I've been told not to quit the day job.

So I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like you might not have this set up properly yet. If you plugged the HDMI directly into the TV then you're not getting that lossless audio bitstream to the Denon receiver. Yes, you *CAN* get lossless sound from the BD80 using its multi-channel analog outputs, but this takes some manual effort to get really dialed in including an SPL meter and proper functioning of those pink noise test tones so you can adjust the levels of the speakers accurately. Here's a tutorial on setting up multi-channel analog outputs that you might find helpful:

How To Set up a Blu-ray Player Using Multi-Channel Analog Outputs... And Why: BigPictureBigSound

I'm assuming you plugged the HDMI into the TV directly thinking this was the best way to get the Blu-ray image to the TV, but really there is no loss in the HDMI signal if you connect it through the receiver so don't worry about that.

If you connected the HDMI to the TV directly because you want others to be able to watch Blu-rays without the surround system fired up then that is going to be a little tricky unless the Denon receiver has a "pass-through" mode. Some receivers do allow the HDMI signal to be passed through to the TV while the receiver is in stand-by mode, but I'm not 100% sure if the Denon has this.

Anyway... good luck and let me know if this helps.

-CB

[Daylightdon]

Your Denon 3808 decodes the new codecs over HDMI, right? If so, the *best* way to hook it all up is HDMI from BD80 to Denon receiver, and from there out to TV also via HDMI. Anything else is going to be a compromise in either sound quality, picture quality or both. There is no need to hook up an optical cable or multi-channel analog unless you just like playing around with these things for some reason. But doing a comparison of the BD80's multi-channel analog out to the Denon doing the decoding via optical would be an unfair comparion since you cannot pass DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD over optical and you'd be getting the degraded lossy core mix instead of the enhanced lossless soundtrack.

I wanted to be able to compare signal quality any which way. It is impossible to change/install any cables with everything in place. Yes, I like playing around and comparing. Been doing it since I was 14 and built my first amplifier; a Bogen BDK 20 I think the model number was.

So I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like you might not have this set up properly yet. If you plugged the HDMI directly into the TV then you're not getting that lossless audio bitstream to the Denon receiver. Yes, you *CAN* get lossless sound from the BD80 using its multi-channel analog outputs, but this takes some manual effort to get really dialed in including an SPL meter and proper functioning of those pink noise test tones so you can adjust the levels of the speakers accurately. Here's a tutorial on setting up multi-channel analog outputs that you might find helpful:

The HDMI output from the Blu-Ray goes to the Denon and out from the Denon to the TV. Didn't both to use my SPL meter, just tweeked it by ear!
I was using SPL meters 35 years ago along with IVY hand held frequency analyzers and a walkie talkie telling my helper in the projection booth which adjustments to make on the Dolby DB 50 decoder.
After playing around with it over the weekend--even with my sister-in-law visiting for Easter, it now sounds better than any sound system I've ever owned!

For that Ray Charles disc, the lossless surround track is Dolby TrueHD (not DTS), so if your Denon says anything other than "Dolby TrueHD" in its display then it is not getting the lossless bitstream from the player. The only way it can get the lossless bitstream from the player is via HDMI.

The Ray Charles disc I have has DTS HD on it and it surpasses anything I ever heard from a disc. Is not DTS HD the lossless sound I been led to believe it is?

All in all I am very pleased with the Panasonic DMP-BD-80 Blue-Ray player.
One minor problem is the "screen saver" which does not work. I sent an email to Panasonic, and am waiting for a response.

Meant to mention I did an upgrade over the internet. Simple and easy!

[MrBoylan]

I wanted to be able to compare signal quality any which way. It is impossible to change/install any cables with everything in place. Yes, I like playing around and comparing. Been doing it since I was 14 and built my first amplifier; a Bogen BDK 20 I think the model number was.

No problem with that. It just wasn't clear whether you had the HDMI output connected to your receiver at all. When you said "except for the Video which will always be HDMI" I ASS-U-MEd that you meant you had the HDMI plugged directly into the TV instead of the receiver. Video purists like me always used to plug component video connections (analog) directly into the display to avoid loss but this is no longer necessary with HDMI.

The HDMI output from the Blu-Ray goes to the Denon and out from the Denon to the TV. Didn't both to use my SPL meter, just tweeked it by ear!

For the HDMI connection, you wouldn't need the SPL meter. The levels are all set by the Audyssey auto-calibration system and its included microphone. It was only for the multi-channel analog connection set-up that I was recommending the test tones and SPL meter.

I was using SPL meters 35 years ago along with IVY hand held frequency analyzers and a walkie talkie telling my helper in the projection booth which adjustments to make on the Dolby DB 50 decoder.

I thought you invented the SPL meter!?

After playing around with it over the weekend--even with my sister-in-law visiting for Easter, it now sounds better than any sound system I've ever owned!

And that's all that matters.

The Ray Charles disc I have has DTS HD on it and it surpasses anything I ever heard from a disc. Is not DTS HD the lossless sound I been led to believe it is?

DTS-HD Master Audio would be lossless surround if it has it (DTS-HD High Resolution sound is not lossless, but it's still pretty great). But the Blu-ray stats site lists Dolby TrueHD as the lossless soundtrack for Ray Charles "Live at Montreaux:"

Blu-ray Disc Statistics - Ray Charles: Live At Montreux 1997 - Title Details

I guess either their listing is wrong or it's incomplete. Does it have both Dolby TrueHD *and* DTS-HD MA? If so, that's cool, and it gives you something else to compare.

All in all I am very pleased with the Panasonic DMP-BD-80 Blue-Ray player.
One minor problem is the "screen saver" which does not work. I sent an email to Panasonic, and am waiting for a response.

The screen saver does work, just not like one might expect it to work. It does not engage for Blu-ray Discs or DVDs that are set to "pause." But it does engage when the Direct Navigator or Functions menu is displayed, or MP3 or CDs are being played, or still photos are being displayed. In these cases, if the screen does not change for 10 minutes, it kicks into the animated screensaver mode. Also, having it on changes the side bars (pillar box area) from black to gray for 4:3 material. This might not be what you would expect, but it is what's documented in the manual. Been this way since at least the 35/55, possibly longer.

Meant to mention I did an upgrade over the internet. Simple and easy!

Yup. One of the coolest features of Blu-ray Players - automatic upgrades!

Anyway, enjoy your player!

-Chris

[Daylightdon]

Thanks for your help and input Chris.

PS No not the SPL meter, it was the electron tube that I helped invent!

[BADuHamel]

No problem with that. It just wasn't clear whether you had the HDMI output connected to your receiver at all. When you said "except for the Video which will always be HDMI" I ASS-U-MEd that you meant you had the HDMI plugged directly into the TV instead of the receiver. Video purists like me always used to plug component video connections (analog) directly into the display to avoid loss but this is no longer necessary with HDMI.


For the HDMI connection, you wouldn't need the SPL meter. The levels are all set by the Audyssey auto-calibration system and its included microphone. It was only for the multi-channel analog connection set-up that I was recommending the test tones and SPL meter.

Umm, unless you're like me and can't stand Audyssey -- I prefer to set my stuff up manually. Audyssey levels always seem WAY off. Give me a SPL Metre any day, thank you.

I thought you invented the SPL meter!?


And that's all that matters.


DTS-HD Master Audio would be lossless surround if it has it (DTS-HD High Resolution sound is not lossless, but it's still pretty great). But the Blu-ray stats site lists Dolby TrueHD as the lossless soundtrack for Ray Charles "Live at Montreaux:"

Yeah, DTS-HD High Resolution is 3Mbps, about double the maximum bitrate of legacy DTS, but still not lossless.

Blu-ray Disc Statistics - Ray Charles: Live At Montreux 1997 - Title Details

I guess either their listing is wrong or it's incomplete. Does it have both Dolby TrueHD *and* DTS-HD MA? If so, that's cool, and it gives you something else to compare.

So far, all of the Eagle Rock BDs I have had have either been only Dolby Digital 5.1 and PCM 2.0 (in the early days) or DTS-HD MA 5.1 and PCM 2.0, so I'd say Blu-raystats is incorrect.

[Daylightdon]

I double checked and that disc (Ray Charles Live at Montreux), is DTS HD MASTER, and it SOUNDS like it TOO! When I opt for Dolby, it's ok, but the DTS just sounds better to these ears.
Maybe because I worked with Terry Beard and Jim Ketchum (Co founders of DTS!), when I was with Paramount working on Vistasonic!!!

[BADuHamel]

I double checked and that disc (Ray Charles Live at Montreux), is DTS HD MASTER, and it SOUNDS like it TOO! When I opt for Dolby, it's ok, but the DTS just sounds better to these ears.
Maybe because I worked with Terry Beard and Jim Ketchum (Co founders of DTS!), when I was with Paramount working on Vistasonic!!!

Well, I would hope the DTS-HD MA sounds better than the Dolby Digital considering the DTS-HD MA is lossless and the DD is lossy; the former should be bit-for-bit identical to the origianl PCM master.

In that regard, there shouldn't be any difference between Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio either, since TrueHD is also lossless, bi=ut there's a catch -- with TrueHD there is always a possiblity that DRC and/or DialNorm are being applied, which means it is not neccessarily bit-for-bit identical to the original PCM master.

Now, Dolby Digital and DTS are lossy either way, but I have always felt that DTS sounded better than DD at the highest bitrates.

[MrBoylan]

I double checked and that disc (Ray Charles Live at Montreux), is DTS HD MASTER, and it SOUNDS like it TOO! When I opt for Dolby, it's ok, but the DTS just sounds better to these ears.
Maybe because I worked with Terry Beard and Jim Ketchum (Co founders of DTS!), when I was with Paramount working on Vistasonic!!!

Well, according to some other sites, like DVD Verdict and High Def Digest, there is both a DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD mix on there (both 5.1/48KHz, and I assume the same sample size). If this is true, then any perceived differences between the DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD mix would be wishful thinking as they certainly came from the same PCM master (although, as Brandon mentioned, they could use dialog normalization on one vs. the other, which could account for differences).

But then Blu-ray.com says that the Dolby mix is lossy Dolby Digital 5.1 (and that's consistent with what Brandon says he has seen on other Eagle Rock titles, and it would make sense since this appears to be a single layer BD-25 disc). So who the hell really knows what's on it?

But as long as it sounds good, who cares?

Hey, Brandon, why didn't (or why don't) you review this one?? Then we'd know for sure.

-CB

[BADuHamel]

Well, according to some other sites, like DVD Verdict and High Def Digest, there is both a DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD mix on there (both 5.1/48KHz, and I assume the same sample size). If this is true, then any perceived differences between the DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD mix would be wishful thinking as they certainly came from the same PCM master (although, as Brandon mentioned, they could use dialog normalization on one vs. the other, which could account for differences).


But then Blu-ray.com says that the Dolby mix is lossy Dolby Digital 5.1 (and that's consistent with what Brandon says he has seen on other Eagle Rock titles, and it would make sense since this appears to be a single layer BD-25 disc). So who the hell really knows what's on it?


But as long as it sounds good, who cares?

Almost all of the Eagle Rock titles I have, have been BD25s, except Jeff Beck which was a rather long title and, IIRC, The Cure, which was also very long and also had a 96/24 DTS-HD MA soundtrack. None of them, however, have had both TrueHD and DTS-HD MA soundtracks. Even The Cure ony had a 48/24 PCM 2.0 mix to go along with the 96/24 DTS-HD MA 5.1.

Hey, Brandon, why didn't (or why don't) you review this one?? Then we'd know for sure.

-CB

I don't know, either it slipped my attention and I never requested it from Eagle Rock, or I did request it and it never actually showed up?
It's been out a while, so I can't even remember what the deal was with that.