Connecting Dish Network and OTA to one Coax Input

[aakash]

Hello! I currently have Dish Network with a 2-room, non-HD package. I recently purchased a new Samsung LN32A550 HDTV to replace out an older TV in my bedroom. Since my new TV has an integrated HD tuner, I would like to connect an OTA connection to my TV to also get HDTV in addition to the Dish channels. Unfortunately, my new TV only has 1 coax input forcing me to choose between HDTV or non-HD Dish network. Is there any way to combine the two connections and plug it into the TV and have the TV recognize both the OTA HDTV as well as Dish network?

I read on your website at Can I Combine OTA HDTV Antenna with Satellite Dish on One Coax Cable?: BigPictureBigSound that it is possible to combine an OTA antenna with Dish using a diplexer. However, the article indicates that that a second diplexer is required to split the OTA and Dish signals before they are plugged into the TV. So, this doesn't apply in my scenario since I only have one coax input on my new TV.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[MrBoylan]

Hello! I currently have Dish Network with a 2-room, non-HD package. I recently purchased a new Samsung LN32A550 HDTV to replace out an older TV in my bedroom. Since my new TV has an integrated HD tuner, I would like to connect an OTA connection to my TV to also get HDTV in addition to the Dish channels. Unfortunately, my new TV only has 1 coax input forcing me to choose between HDTV or non-HD Dish network. Is there any way to combine the two connections and plug it into the TV and have the TV recognize both the OTA HDTV as well as Dish network?

I read on your website at Can I Combine OTA HDTV Antenna with Satellite Dish on One Coax Cable?: BigPictureBigSound that it is possible to combine an OTA antenna with Dish using a diplexer. However, the article indicates that that a second diplexer is required to split the OTA and Dish signals before they are plugged into the TV. So, this doesn't apply in my scenario since I only have one coax input on my new TV.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi, and welcome to the forum,

The article does apply to you, but there may be another way to do what you are trying to accomplish. If you want to combine a satellite dish feed and rooftop OTA signal on the one coax cable coming into your house, you need one diplexer to combine the signals at the DISH/antenna end, and a second (or third or fourth) diplexer to split those signals back into their satellite and OTA components in order to feed your satellite receivers.

But it sounds like you are trying to use an antenna on just one of your TVs, not all of the TVs in your house so there may be another way to do this. From what you said, it sounds like you're actually feeding your new TV with a coax cable output coming from your DISH network receiver, tuning in your TV to channel 3 or channel 4 to watch your DISH channels. If this is the case, that's actually the worst possible way to connect a satellite receiver to a TV and you should change the way it's connected.

When you connect your satellite box to your TV this way, the satellite box has to modulate the digital video and stereo audio signals it is receiving from the satellite to a degraded combined video and mono audio RF signal for transmission over channel 3. You lose about 25% of the video resolution and your stereo audio in this process. Your TV then has to "tune in" this signal and separate it back into its audio and video components using analog channel 3 or 4 on your TV.

Ideally you should be using an HDMI or component video/stereo audio cable between satellite receiver and TV, but if these are older non-HD DISH receivers then they probably don't have these outputs. But what they *DO* have is RCA jacks for composite video and stereo audio and (hopefully) an S-video jack as well. So you need to replace that single coax cable with a three-connector red/white/yellow composite video and stereo audio RCA cable (or better yet, an S-Video and stereo audio cable), between your DISH receiver and your new TV. These cables are available at WalMart, Home Depot, Radio Shack, etc. or you can order some online (links below). This will not only improve the quality of your picture and sound from DISH channels, but it will free up the antenna input on your new TV to connect an over the air antenna without worrying about diplexers.

Here are a couple of decent audio/video cables you can get online. I'd recommend replacing the cables on any of the TVs in your house that are connected to a satellte box. If your receivers have S-video outputs (and your TVs have S-Video inputs) then go with the S-video cable otherwise get the standard A/V cables:

• Parts Express:S-Video A/V Patch Cable 6 ft.
• Parts Express:Belkin AV Master Series Audio/Video Cable 6 ft.

For the antenna hook-up, for best results, you will want to put an outdoor antenna up on your roof, but if you are close enough to the broadcast towers then you can experiment with inexpensive indoor antennas that might do the trick. Here's one we reviewed that works pretty well to receive the digital and HD OTA channels:

• Terk HDTVi VHF/UHF/HDTV Indoor Antenna by Audiovox: Review by Chris Boylan on BigPictureBigSound

Also, here are a couple of other articles you may find helpful in understanding the various connection options available to you and the best way to go about hooking up an antenna for OTA HDTV.

• How To Watch HDTV Channels for Free with an OTA Antenna: BigPictureBigSound
• How to Hook Up that Fancy New HDTV - Part II: The Hook-Up: BigPictureBigSound

Good luck!

-Chris

[aakash]

Thanks for responding Chris! TV1 is currently connected to my Dish Network 625 DVR via S-Video and composite cables (for audio). Since this is an older DVR, I unfortunately don't have component or HDMI connection. I connected TV2 (the TV in my bedroom that was just replaced) via coax because that is my only connection between TV1 (where my DVR sits) and TV2. I used the coax output from the "Home Distribution" section of the DVR panel to run to TV2.

I already have a separate coax connection from the rooftop OTA antenna to TV1. So, I am looking to combine this OTA signal along with the Dish network signal and have it run along the existing coax connection I have to TV2's room. It sounds like I can use a diplexer to combine the Dish and OTA signals. However, it also sounds like I would need to use another diplexer in my bedroom to split the connections again. Unfortunately, TV2 only has one coax input, so I am unsure how to connect both the Dish and OTA connections on TV2 (I would like to connect TV2 to the OTA signal to get HDTV).

If I've misunderstood something, please let me know.

Thanks.

[MrBoylan]

Thanks for responding Chris! TV1 is currently connected to my Dish Network 625 DVR via S-Video and composite cables (for audio). Since this is an older DVR, I unfortunately don't have component or HDMI connection. I connected TV2 (the TV in my bedroom that was just replaced) via coax because that is my only connection between TV1 (where my DVR sits) and TV2. I used the coax output from the "Home Distribution" section of the DVR panel to run to TV2.

I already have a separate coax connection from the rooftop OTA antenna to TV1. So, I am looking to combine this OTA signal along with the Dish network signal and have it run along the existing coax connection I have to TV2's room. It sounds like I can use a diplexer to combine the Dish and OTA signals. However, it also sounds like I would need to use another diplexer in my bedroom to split the connections again. Unfortunately, TV2 only has one coax input, so I am unsure how to connect both the Dish and OTA connections on TV2 (I would like to connect TV2 to the OTA signal to get HDTV).

If I've misunderstood something, please let me know.

Thanks.

Actually there is probably no way to do what you describe short of running two separate coax cables to TV2 (one coming from the antenna, one coming from the DISH DVR's TV2 coax output) and then getting an A/B coax switch for TV2 to select which antenna input you use. The signal that comes across that coax line from your DVR's TV2 output is not technically a "satellite" broadcast signal. It has been modulated by your satellite receiver into a NTSC or cable channel output (between UHF channel 21 and 69, selectable, or between cable channels 73 and 125, also selectable). Unfortunately these signals do overlap with the standard UHF/VHF OTA frequencies, and (from what I understand) cannot be combined with an OTA antenna signal using a diplexer or a simple combiner.

Your other option would be to use the composite video/audio outputs from your DVR to TV2 (instead of coax), and this would free up the coax input on your TV2 to be used for the antenna feed. But I don't know how far away the DISH DVR is from your TV2 so I don't know if this is a viable option for you.

The funny thing is that your DISH DVR does have an "antenna pass-through" feature which allows you to connect an OTA antenna directly to the DVR, and it will pass this through to the connected TV when the DVR is powered off *BUT* this only works to the TV1 coax output (channel 3/channel 4). It does NOT work to the TV2 coax output (ch 21-69). And if you switch out the coax output of your DVR, then you will have to watch on TV2 whatever is selected on the main box for TV1. The DISH TV2 remotes work via RF (Radio Frequency) so they can actually work through walls, but the TV1 remotes operate on IR (Infrared) so they CANNOT work through walls. So if you set up your bedroom TV as TV1 on the DISH DVR, then you will no longer be able to change channels remotely.

All very complicated but such is life in this fancy digital age! My recommendation would be to swap to the DVR's TV2 composite audio/video outputs instead of coax (but only if the distance is feasible) and use the coax input on TV2 for the OTA antenna. This will improve the quality of your DISH DVR signal to TV2 and allow you to watch whatever HDTV signals are bring broadcast locally in beautiful high definition resolution.

Good luck!

-Chris

[aakash]

Actually there is probably no way to do what you describe short of running two separate coax cables to TV2 (one coming from the antenna, one coming from the DISH DVR's TV2 coax output) and then getting an A/B coax switch for TV2 to select which antenna input you use. The signal that comes across that coax line from your DVR's TV2 output is not technically a "satellite" broadcast signal. It has been modulated by your satellite receiver into a NTSC or cable channel output (between UHF channel 21 and 69, selectable, or between cable channels 73 and 125, also selectable). Unfortunately these signals do overlap with the standard UHF/VHF OTA frequencies, and (from what I understand) cannot be combined with an OTA antenna signal using a diplexer or a simple combiner.

Your other option would be to use the composite video/audio outputs from your DVR to TV2 (instead of coax), and this would free up the coax input on your TV2 to be used for the antenna feed. But I don't know how far away the DISH DVR is from your TV2 so I don't know if this is a viable option for you.

The funny thing is that your DISH DVR does have an "antenna pass-through" feature which allows you to connect an OTA antenna directly to the DVR, and it will pass this through to the connected TV when the DVR is powered off *BUT* this only works to the TV1 coax output (channel 3/channel 4). It does NOT work to the TV2 coax output (ch 21-69). And if you switch out the coax output of your DVR, then you will have to watch on TV2 whatever is selected on the main box for TV1. The DISH TV2 remotes work via RF (Radio Frequency) so they can actually work through walls, but the TV1 remotes operate on IR (Infrared) so they CANNOT work through walls. So if you set up your bedroom TV as TV1 on the DISH DVR, then you will no longer be able to change channels remotely.

All very complicated but such is life in this fancy digital age! My recommendation would be to swap to the DVR's TV2 composite audio/video outputs instead of coax (but only if the distance is feasible) and use the coax input on TV2 for the OTA antenna. This will improve the quality of your DISH DVR signal to TV2 and allow you to watch whatever HDTV signals are bring broadcast locally in beautiful high definition resolution.

Good luck!

-Chris

My bedroom is one room away (two walls) from the living room. However, I don't know if I can access the walls to run a composite cable. How long can composite cables get?

Someone mentioned that an alternative idea to combine the DVR Home Distribution output with the OTA signal into a 2 input splitter, and then connect the splitter into TV2. Then run a "scan" on TV2 and the OTA channels would appear on their respective channels and Dish would appear on the designated Dish channel (mine is channel 60). Does this sound like it may work?

[MrBoylan]

My bedroom is one room away (two walls) from the living room. However, I don't know if I can access the walls to run a composite cable. How long can composite cables get?

You can easily run a high quality composite video or S-video and stereo audio cable up to 25 feet without significant loss. Over that length, you still might be OK with a heavier gauge cable but you might consider a distribution amp. Just make sure you don't run the cables parallel to power lines as this can cause hum or visible distortion. Cross power lines at right angles where necessary.

Someone mentioned that an alternative idea to combine the DVR Home Distribution output with the OTA signal into a 2 input splitter, and then connect the splitter into TV2. Then run a "scan" on TV2 and the OTA channels would appear on their respective channels and Dish would appear on the designated Dish channel (mine is channel 60). Does this sound like it may work?

It's funny but I was going to suggest the exact same thing until I read in the 625 DVR manual (chapter 2) that if you want to combine OTA and DISH over the CH 21-69 (TV2) output, you need to connect to specific "TV Distribution Equipment" in order to prevent the possibility of re-transmitting DISH content via your over-the-air antenna (which would be an FCC violation). So honestly, if you try that, you'd do so at your own risk. You would need to select a UHF channel for DISH that does not interfere with any of your local HD channels, which are also typically broadcast over UHF bands. You probably cannot use the cable channel output option of the DISH receiver, because your TV probably will not scan the cable and ATSC/NTSC bands simultaneously.

There are probably one-way combiner devices that would prevent you from accidentally re-transmitting DISH content over your antenna, but I don't pretend to be an expert on RF transmission so I wouldn't want to speculate as to how you could do this.

A safer bet would be to use the composite video/stereo audio (or S-Video and audio) outputs from TV2 for DISH and run a separate cable for the antenna.

Here are some long cables you could use (and your purchases support BPBS, although not much since these are cheap:

• Parts Express:S-Video A/V Patch Cable 25 ft.
• Amazon.com: 50 FT 3-RCA Stereo Audio Video A/V AV Cable Patch 50ft: Industrial & Scientific

Good luck!

-Chris

[aakash]

I don't have easy access to the walls to run the cables through. So, I will try the splitter approach. Can you please suggest a good splitter and RG6 cables (so I can also help support BPBS).

Thanks.

[MrBoylan]

I don't have easy access to the walls to run the cables through. So, I will try the splitter approach. Can you please suggest a good splitter and RG6 cables (so I can also help support BPBS).

Thanks.

Again, I'd recommend against it. FCC violations are no joke. But if you want to combine UHF frequencies from different sources on a single coax cable, any high bandwidth 2GHz splitter/combiner will do (like the one below). I don't know what length RG6 cables you need but there's one below on Parts Express on closeout for 88 cents (8 foot length). Not sure if you need HDMI cables as well, but Parts Express has great prices on HDMI and Network cables too. You can find them if you search the site.

• Parts Express:RG-6 Coaxial Cable with Male to Male F Connectors 8 ft.
• Parts Express:2-Way Splitter/Combiner

Good luck,

-Chris

[aakash]

Again, I'd recommend against it. FCC violations are no joke. But if you want to combine UHF frequencies from different sources on a single coax cable, any high bandwidth 2GHz splitter/combiner will do (like the one below). I don't know what length RG6 cables you need but there's one below on Parts Express on closeout for 88 cents (8 foot length). Not sure if you need HDMI cables as well, but Parts Express has great prices on HDMI and Network cables too. You can find them if you search the site.

• Parts Express:RG-6 Coaxial Cable with Male to Male F Connectors 8 ft.
• Parts Express:2-Way Splitter/Combiner

Good luck,

-Chris

Good point - I definitely don't want to mess with the FCC! The Dish network guide you pointed to earlier indicated that using an attenuator would get around the problem (end of page 3 of the PDF). So, I plan to use an attenuator to avoid problems with the FCC. Also, the guide mentioned that as long as I am using an on home cabling system, I would be ok. Would the coax connection from TV1 to TV2 be considered an in home cabling system? If not, do know what are they may be referring to?

Thanks.

[MrBoylan]

Good point - I definitely don't want to mess with the FCC! The Dish network guide you pointed to earlier indicated that using an attenuator would get around the problem (end of page 3 of the PDF). So, I plan to use an attenuator to avoid problems with the FCC. Also, the guide mentioned that as long as I am using an on home cabling system, I would be ok. Would the coax connection from TV1 to TV2 be considered an in home cabling system? If not, do know what are they may be referring to?

Thanks.

I think the issue here is that if you connect the output of the DISH receiver to an antenna (which is different from what they're talking about on Page 3 in the PDF) then you may risk broadcasting the DVR's output over the air, even very weakly, and that could potentially a.) interfere with legitimate licensed broadcasts on that frequency and b.) broadcast prurient content over the public airwaves (e.g. SKINEMAX soft core porn!).

Proceed with caution.

-CB