Is there a 50" plasma that can compete w/ the retired Pioneer Elite Plasmas???

[roberth]

After all this time, I was wondering if Panasonic or maybe even Samsung finally put out a 50" plasma close or equal to the raved Pioneer Elite retired plasmas. I hear the 2011 Panasonic plasma all suffer from the fluctuating light picture that has been well documented on Amazon and other sources. Good grief, still releasing hdtv's with a bug like this. Anyway I haven't looked for a long time but seems much has not changed with hoping a plama blacks and PQ is finally able to complete with the retired Elites.

Appreciate any feedback.

Robert

[roberth]

Wow, I guess not. That's pretty sad no one has made a plasma to date to challenge the Elite plasmas not made any longer. It seems the latest Panasonics are having black levels closer to performance of the Elites but I've read on many sites about the 2011 Panasonics having an fluctuating light issues on all models. This issue is well documented and concerning. Looks like I'll keep waiting and be happy with what I have.

Robert

[MrBoylan]

After all this time, I was wondering if Panasonic or maybe even Samsung finally put out a 50" plasma close or equal to the raved Pioneer Elite retired plasmas. I hear the 2011 Panasonic plasma all suffer from the fluctuating light picture that has been well documented on Amazon and other sources. Good grief, still releasing hdtv's with a bug like this. Anyway I haven't looked for a long time but seems much has not changed with hoping a plama blacks and PQ is finally able to complete with the retired Elites.

Appreciate any feedback.

Robert

Hi, Robert,

Still kinda busy with CEDIA show stuff. Sorry for the delay. Panasonic's fluctuating light issue was fixed a month or two ago and is not in the current production models manfactured after the fix was discovered. Unforunately from what I have heard there is no easy way to deliver the fix to existing users as the SD cards that update the firmware have proprietary information on them and cannot be mailed out to customers. Anyone who is unsatisfied with the light levels of a 2011 Panasonic plasma should report the problem to Panasonic to obtain a fix. Most likely it will require a tech to come to the person's home to update the firmware.

The problem with comparing current products with the old Kuro is that visual memory is notoriously unreliable. The last time I saw a Pioneer Kuro plasma was probably over 2 years ago, so I really can't tell you whether the current Panasonic or Samsung plasmas would hold up. The KURO demo I saw at a trade show (I think it was CES 2008 or 2009) was the best TV demo I've ever seen, but that was not a production model. I would speculate that the current Samsung and Panasonic plasmas would hold up well to the last of the KUROs in terms of black level performance, but with many many more features, 3D capabilities and enhanced motion reproduction thanks to faster firing phosphors (among other things).

Also, David Katzmeier over at CNET has done some follow-up testing on the 2011 Panasonic and Samsung plasmas and found insignificant levels of dimming and black level increase - nothing that could not be corrected by a follow-up calibration a couple of years after purchase. In fact, the 2011 Panasonic plasmas had *better* (lower) black levels after 1,500 to 2,000 hours of use, with no re-calibration required.

You can read his results here:

Long term testing of plasma TVs (Samsung and Panasonic)

I was looking forward to the upcoming HDTV shoot-out that Robert Zohn (Value Electronics) was going to be hosting this weekend, but unfortunately the main techie/calibrator (Kevin Miller) had some complications with appendicitis so they're rescheduling it to October and I probably will not be able to attend. I do have a writer covering it though, so hopefully we'll be able to report back on how that goes. They will have the new ELITE LCD TVs which I have seen at trade shows a couple of times now and which looked pretty impressive (almost "plasma-like!").

You can read more about that event here:

2011 HDTV Shootout

Bottom line? I'd be happy to own a VT30 Panasonic plasma (with the fluctuating light level fix) and would not have even a hint of KURO-envy.

-CB

[roberth]

Thanks CB, I appreciate the in depth reply.

Good to know the Panasonic fluctuating light issue is fixed. I only wonder how I would know I have one that has already been fixed before all the ones existing in stock have been depleted. I would think Panasonic would fix if ordered directly from them but they might not, leaving it to the buyer to determine if a tech service call is needed. Any thoughts on Panasonic releasing details on maybe VT models after a particular s/n being fixed?

I had no idea Pioneer Elite was looking at releasing a LCD HDTV. Any idea on pricing? I would think this LCD would be pretty impressive to have the Elite logo on it but still not sure if it would be better than a Panasonic plasma. I can see the logic since many opt for LCD's knowing they have it in a bright environment. Fortunately I am able to totally eliminate all outside light from my family room.

Also thanks for the heads-up on the rescheduled shootout on Panasonic / Samsung plasmas. I would be very interested in seeing how this works out. Is Samsung / Panasonic performance that close? I thought Panasonic had the edge on black level performance but maybe Samsung has closed the gap a lot. I did read a review some other place where one reviewer hoping to get the Panasonic plasma (can't remember m/n) was disappointed by the amount of grain so went with the Samsung. Sorry for lack of details on this, I know it was either a 2010 or 2011 model. Maybe there was some issue on his Panasonic or maybe Samsung does provide a cleaner picture. Any thoughts on the advantages / disadvantages on the Samsung & Panasonic plasmas?

Robert

[MrBoylan]

Hi, Robert,

No idea how they are rolling out the fix. It's one of those things that many people may not notice or may think is normal behavior. I have really only spent time with the 2011 models at shows and press briefings. My current reference is still a VT25 from 2010. We are supposed to get a VT30 in for review soon, and I assume the one we get will be fixed.

But one of my guys (Ian White) did review the ST30 and did not specifically notice this issue during the review, and he is an ISF-trained calibrator with a pretty good eye. I'm not saying it's a non-issue. Enough people have noticed it that it does appear to be a real problem. But it also does not appear to be as obvious as some other picture or performance defects that plague inferior sets.

As for Samsung vs. Panasonic plasma, you have people on both sides of this debate. Samsung claimed superior black levels over time with the 2010 models, but to my eyes, the Samsung plasmas have always been a bit more susceptible to image retention than the Panasonic models and that to me is a bit annoying. They both perform (and measure) extremely well.

The new "ELITE" sets (60-inch and 70-inch) are not technically Pioneer sets. They're manufactured by Sharp, with cooperation from Pioneer engineers. It is a full array LED-backlight LCD set set so it has good uniformity, but also with some fancy processing called "Intelligent Variable Contrast," it also avoids blooming and other traditional drawbacks of LCD sets. IF would say it may very well be the best looking LED/LCD set I've seen, but my viewing so far has been fairly limited.

-CB

[roberth]

Well, I will be placing an order for the 55" VT30 tomorrow from BB. Actually I just had to cancel my order oustanding for 3 weeks since they lied to me saying it was going to be delivered. Here I find out they can't special order and only sell maybe 3-4 of the top of the line so have to wait until it actually arrives. I don't like ever buying something and paying for it on my mastercard without getting it within the month. Good grief, now a days is not that hard. Anyway BB has the same price now that was $200 higher a few weeks ago. For 2k, it is even 150 lower than Amazon's current listed new price. I will also make sure I get an August or better yet a September build to ensure I don't have the light issue since Panasonic fixed all models in August from what they are saying at AVS forum.

Looking forward to getting this great HDTV set up. I can't believe no one is talking about this one. I read one UK review where the guy said it was the only TV so far that is good enough to replace his KURO. With the light issue fixed, any other issues mentioned by folks just seemed to be the nitpickers justifying their previous purchase is still better or need a reason not to spend the money. The THX mode is awesome. First time I've ever stopped in a BB or other store in my tracks to look more at the PQ. Not sure why someone would want to run in any other mode. Glad I can keep 100% of all light, well covering all window, out of my room so sure some light still gets in but not that much to matter.

Robert