New TV - Plasma or LED

[jwl]

Chris - following up on the last topic, I am looking to get a 50-60" tv in a room where the only reflection/light to worry about is from two lamps opposite the tv. If you had to go with one tv, whether plasma or led (and it is a room where I sometimes have a crowd watching so viewing angle somewhat important), which would you choose? I don't care if 3D capable or not (unless you wholeheartedly recommend it), want to spend somewhere between $1k and $2k, and watch sports and movies mostly. I had a Pioneer plasma which was great, minus the burn in (and the fact they stopped making tvs), but it is no longer working. Thanks for your help!

[MrBoylan]

Chris - following up on the last topic, I am looking to get a 50-60" tv in a room where the only reflection/light to worry about is from two lamps opposite the tv. If you had to go with one tv, whether plasma or led (and it is a room where I sometimes have a crowd watching so viewing angle somewhat important), which would you choose? I don't care if 3D capable or not (unless you wholeheartedly recommend it), want to spend somewhere between $1k and $2k, and watch sports and movies mostly. I had a Pioneer plasma which was great, minus the burn in (and the fact they stopped making tvs), but it is no longer working. Thanks for your help!

Do you need any internet features, like Netflix, VUDU, etc.? Or are you going to get those in a separate box like a Roku or a Blu-ray player?

-CB

[jwl]

Was going to lean on you for that, but I planned to get a blu ray player in addition. The ability to use Netflix or vudu etc would be important. I suppose I should ask what kind of blu ray to pair with it as well. Thanks again for your help!

[MrBoylan]

Was going to lean on you for that, but I planned to get a blu ray player in addition. The ability to use Netflix or vudu etc would be important. I suppose I should ask what kind of blu ray to pair with it as well. Thanks again for your help!

Well having been very close to all the deals on Black Friday (we've been posting them fast and furious since about Tuesday), I've been seeing what is available and definitely have my own preferences. In a light-controlled room where off-axis viewing is important and you like to watch sports (lots of fast moving images), it's hard not to recommend a good plasma. All three of the biggies (LG, Samsung and Panasonic) make good ones these days, but the top of the line is currently the VT25 series from Panasonic (which is a 3D model, but it doesn't mean you have to watch it in 3D mode all the time, obviously. It makes a damn good 2D TV as well. Unfortunately they're also pretty expensive and hard to find online. Another poster said he was able to find the 58-inch VT25 series available in a bundle (with player, 2 extra pairs of glasses and movies) at a local store for under $2900. But I personally haven't seen a deal that good. You could try calling OneCall at 1.877.457.7292 and see what kind of deal they can come up with on that or one of the smaller screen sizes (50 and 54 inch sizes are also available).

Short of that, the Panasonic GT25 series TVs are also excellent (also 3D) as are the C8000 series plasma TVs from Samsung (also 3D). Companies are typically putting their highest performing panels in the 3D models, as the performance needed to do good high quality 3D also makes the set very good at 2D performance. The better value of these two is the GT25 series currently. Amazon just lowered the price of the 50-inch GT25 series to $1599 and that is *WITH* the bundle - a DMP-BDT100 Blu-ray player, 2 pairs of glasses plus 3 movies - that's like $600 worth of freebies. 2 movies come in the box plus you can get Avatar by mail (forms will be available for that on 12/1). The only way to get Avatar on Blu-ray 3D is to buy a Panasonic 3D TV (or pay an exorbitant price on eBay after 12/1 when they become available). Link for GT25 deal:

Free Blu-ray Player, 3D glasses and Movies with GT25 Series TVs

This way you'd be protected for the future in case 3D becomes more popular. Until then you can just keep the glasses on a shelf somewhere and only take them out for special occasions (like watching Avatar in 3D, for example). My only reservation with this bundle is that the BDT100 player does have a bit of an issue streaming SD content from Netflix. There is a bit of the "chroma bug" in Netflix SD playback which can cause smearing or rough lines around the edges of colored borders. It isn't always visible and doesn't bother all people, but it can be annoying. It's possible that Panasonic may be able to fix this with a firmware upgrade. Also, since the TV has Netflix too (and no chroma bug), you could just watch standard def Netflix streams on the TV directly instead. The player has no problems on anything ewlse - DVDs and Blu-rays and HD Netflix streams all look excellent. This player also just got access to VUDU last week via a firmware and server upgrade which makes it even better (it already had Netflix, Pandora, amazon VOD, YouTube and Picasa).

The Samsung C8000 plasma is available for a little bit more and includes a similar player/glasses bundle but (of course) no Avatar in that bundle. Still a nice set though with excellent color reproduction, solid black level performance and excellent motion reproduction. Also, minimal crosstalk in 3D mode and packed with Samsung's Internet@TV and Samsung Apps so you get most of the popular streaming providers (including Hulu Plus), though of course subscription fees still apply. Last I checked the price on the Samsung 50-inch C8000 plasma was $1649 with the bundle which is excellent and will probably go up soon: Link for that bundle is here (and note that the C8000 LED TV is also listed, but I prefer the C8000 plasma):

Samsung 3D TV Bundles on LED, LCD and Plasma TVs

If you want to forego 3D altogether, then you can pick up the 54-inch G25 series TV (2D only TC-P54GT25) for a little under $1400 with a free soundbar and wireless subwoofer ($350 freebie). This is basically the GT25 series without 3D, and is available in sizes up to 54 inches (the GT25 maxes out at 50 inches). The G25 has the VIERA Cast stuff so you get Netflix, Amazon VOD, YouTube and Pandora (but not VUDU, at least not yet). Here's a link to the BF Deal with free soundbar (actually expires in early December I think). The 42-inch model is listed but all models are eligible for the promo and in the link:

Free SoundBar with GT25 Series Plasma HDTVs

Then stepping down a peg, there is the S2 series of Panasonic plasmas. No networking capabilities, and not quite as many picture enhancements and adjustment modes as the higher end sets, but here you can go large without breaking the bank. The 58-inch S2 plasma is a $1099 Black Friday special on Amazon. You can pair it with any Blu-ray player you like. For standard 2D Blu-ray players, I like the Panasonic DMP-BD85 and LG BD570 and BD590. Here's the link for the 58-inch s@ on Amazon ($1099 today, maybe not for long - actually it looks like it's out of stock now at that price, though one of the marketplace sellers has it for $1199):

58-inch TC-P58S2 plasma on Amazon

Even the 65-inch version is available for around $1900 (sometimes slightly less). If you want a really impressive and cinematic feel to movies and sports at home, bigger is invariably better, and this is a pretty fine set for the money:

65-inch S2 Plasma on Amazon

Anyway, I hope that helps a bit. It is a good time to be buying, particularly the 3D models as I don't think they have sold as well as the manufacturers had been hoping. That 50-inch GT25 for $1599 is probably my favorite overall deal.

Regards,

-Chris

[MizNitch]

I too have been debating between a LCD/LED or a plasma. When I look at them all side by side the LCD/LED TV's are much brighter and the picture looks much more lifelike. The plasma TV's kinda look well, dark and grainy. Maybe it's just the stores displays setting, but I've been looking for about a year and the LCD/LED always look soooo much better. The plasmas are much cheaper though. I turn 30 in March and I'm pretty set on getting the Vizio XVT553SV.

I don't care at all for the new 3D stuff coming out and I'll even go out on a limb here and say that 3D TV's/technology will flop (much like HD-DVD's).

[MrBoylan]

I too have been debating between a LCD/LED or a plasma. When I look at them all side by side the LCD/LED TV's are much brighter and the picture looks much more lifelike. The plasma TV's kinda look well, dark and grainy. Maybe it's just the stores displays setting, but I've been looking for about a year and the LCD/LED always look soooo much better. The plasmas are much cheaper though. I turn 30 in March and I'm pretty set on getting the Vizio XVT553SV.

I don't care at all for the new 3D stuff coming out and I'll even go out on a limb here and say that 3D TV's/technology will flop (much like HD-DVD's).

LCD and LED/LCD TVs generally do look better in stores because they're brighter, and can compete well with the bright lights of the showroom, but get them home and the reverse is generally true. For a time we had a Samsung B8500 series LED TV in one room and a Panasonic G10 in the next. Using the same broadcast feed to both TVs, it wasn't even that close. The B8500 LED set was definitely brighter, but the G10 had deeper blacks which really add to the dimensionality of the image. This reproduction of black levels is still something that plasmas do better than LED and LCD TVs. Don't believe the hype or the manufacturer's specs. In the real world, in a medium bright to dark room, the best plasmas still produce the best overall picture. LED and LCD are still playing catch-up here. Also, the motion interpolation, which is more necessary on LCD and LED because of the way they product an image, leads to soap opera-like artifacts that I really dislike. Yes, you can turn off the motion interpolation or turn it down, but it's on by default on most LED and LCD TVs and seeing it bugs me because it looks unnatural on film-based content.

Unless you have a really bright room, with lots of light and no window treatments, you'll get better performance from a high-end plasma than from an LCD or even LED TV. That said, the VIZIO XVT line is pretty nice and the 55-inch model specifically has a lot to like. Good internet apps, a very cool slide out QWERTY remote and a matte screen coating that absorbs most ambient light. Most of the LCD and LED vendors have started putting glass or glossy screen coatings on their sets which make them look shiny and can pass light from the image through better, but it also reflects like the dickens so if you have a light source behind you, you may as well be watching a old-school glass-coated plasma. So in a bright room, the XVT55SV does very well. The other nice thing about the VIZIO XVT series set is that it still uses a full array of LED backlights as opposed to most competitive sets which use edge lighting. With edge lighting it's tough to get good uniformity (even lighting on the screen) but it's much easier to do so with a full array LED backlight.

I have a friend who is rebuilding his house and needed two TVs: one for a den/office type area with drapes and good lighting control, the other for a great room with high windows with no window treatments (loads of ambient light), so I recommended the G25 plasma for the office and the XVT553SV for the great room - he loves them both. Good thing, because I like when my friends keep speaking to me after I make TV recommendations.

Oddly enough, I don't see the 553 listed as a direct product for sale on Amazon any more even though they only started selling it a few months ago and that's where my friend got his. They have it listed, but only through marketplace sellers. They have the replacement model 554 listed already (which has 3D and is a bit more expensive). BTW, remember any 3D TV can be used in 2D mode without the glasses and usually the 3D sets make fine 2D sets as well.

• XVT553SV on Amazon
• XVT3D554SV on Amazon

Later,

-Chris

[jwl]

Chris – Many thanks again, and I have narrowed it down with your gracious help. I think I can fit a 58” tv on the wall as opposed to a 54” since it is only roughly 3” wider and same height. Here is what I am looking at:

Samsung
590 58” - $1,707
6400 58” - $1,899
6500 58” - $1,897
PNC58C680 58” - $1,897 (3D)

Panasonic
S2 58” - $1,299
G25 54” - $1,400
GT25 50” - $1,599 (3D)

I really am indifferent to 3D (though the higher price makes me turn away from it since I probably won’t use it much). I know you are very high on Panasonic, so my question is, since they only have one 58” that is not high on my list (willing to pay more for something better than S2), should I go with one of the Samsungs or the G25? If the quality of the G25 is that much better than the 58” Samsungs, then I will go in that direction. Is it possible the 4” isn’t worth $300-400 extra and the quality on that size isn’t as good as the G25?

Also, you have said that 3D requires the highest quality screen so then the 2D on it will be good, so does that mean the 3D Samsung might be worth taking a look at? I wasn’t sure why it is the same price as the 2D versions, and haven't seen much on it, so maybe that means something.

To refresh your memory, I do want to be able to use Netflix and the like, but I think I can achieve that with a blu ray player I will buy. I also do not have a home theater system, will rely on the tv for the sound. So basically it comes down to a 54” Panasonic vs. a 58” Samsung I guess!

[MrBoylan]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay. Been pretty busy here. Had a huge surge of traffic from Black Friday on courtesy of all the deal alerts we were publishing. We had over 40,000 page views on Cyber Monday alone, which was cool, and that left be with a bit of a publishing backlog for Blu-ray reviews, equipment reviews and news articles. Things are relatively quiet today so I'm trying to play catch-up.

I was watching "Avatar" on Blu-ray 3D last night on both a Panasonic and Samsung 3D TV and I gotta tell you, it really looks amazing on either set, but the cross-talk is a little less noticeable on the Panasonic. But these are a couple of models that you are not considering, the Samsung C8000 PDP and the Panasonic VT25 PDP. These are really the best sets out there right now as far as I'm concerned, at least as long as you can control the light in the room. Even if you don't care at all about 3D, you just can't get better quality in 2D viewing than these sets. I wouldn't say they blow away the G25, GT25, C6500, etc., but they just get that little extra bit of performance that makes the difference between a great TV and an outstanding one.

The reason I recommend buying a TV with 3D capabilities now is basically as a hedge in case the format does do well in 2011 and beyond. If you buy a TV without the 3D feature today, you won't be able to upgrade the set to add it later, whereas if you get the 3D feature now, you can just set the glasses on a shelf somewhere and only break them out for the rare occasion of watching one of the few 3D movies available now. Or you just break them out to impress the friends and family. Also, it's a fact that the highest performance 2D TVs on the market today happen to include the 3D feature.

While in 2D mode, the VT25 and the C8000 produce excellent full HD images with deep black levels and really nice saturated colors. The VT25 in particular approaches a 3D-like look just with 2D content (without any gimmicky 2D to 3D conversion features) because the colors pop so much off the inky black backgrounds. Watching Letterman the other night it was amazing just how clearly his black pinstripe suit was set apart from (in front off) the deep murky background of the set behind him. You felt like you could almost reach our and touch the cloth of the suit as it appeared with such rich detail. Again, "3D-like," but without any glasses. I know either would be a bit of a stretch, given your budget, but both the C8000 Samsung and the Panny VT25 both come in a 58-inch size and when you throw in the bundled goodies, the price becomes a lot more reasonable. You can't really get the VT25 series on Amazon, but you could try calling OneCall at 1.877.457.7292 and see what kind of deal they could give you, with or without the bundle. the TV is listed here on the OneCall site but if you call, you will get a better price. Maybe shop around on the web and on Pricegrabber and see if they will match a good online price. If it's a legit dealer they may very well beat or match the price. Here's our PriceGrabber link for the TV:

Panasonic TC-P58VT25 on PriceGrabber.

And I'd say the Samsung C8000 plasma is a very close second. That one is for sale on Amazon and, although they're hiding it right now, it's also eligible for the 3D starter kit and Blu-ray 3D player bundle. At the moment, you can get the 58-inch C8000 plasma (the PN58C8000) for $2399.98 with the bundle, but only if you add it to your cart from this page:

Samsung 3D TV bundles (player, TV, movies and glasses)

This is *WAY* below the list price and below Samsung's MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) which is why Amazon hides the price so deep in the check-out process. It's not in stock but you can lock in the price and the bundle and get it when it *IS* in stock.

These two sets are superior to anything on your list and I think you'd be thrilled with either one. Yeah, they're a little above your budget, but you get player, movies and glasses which you could sell to offset the price if you're totally not into 3D.

Anyway, these are the two that I would buy if I were buying today. You'll see that they're also the top-rated on most of the electronics sites (including CNET), and they will be reviewed on BPBS too, if I stop spending so much time on the forums.

Good luck,

-Chris

[samiboy]

Hi mate,
I am in favor of PLASMA... and when it comes to select a brand.. I'd love to go with Samsung!!

Way to go!!



Thanks!