Confused about upconversion in receivers: Any A/V Receiver Recommendations?

[cheetosandmovies]

I am looking to buy a receiver and want to connect devices via composite, component, and HDMI. I've read that with "stereo" receivers, for every connection type to the receiver (composite, component, HDMI), there has to be the same connections between the TV and the receiver. Is my understanding correct? Are there any good stereo receivers that have HDMI inputs?

I've been looking at the features for several receivers and noticed that one might have "analog to HDMI upconversion" but not "component video upconversion." What is the difference between the two?

I'd really like some recommendations for receivers. I want composite, component, and HDMI inputs, would prefer to only have 1 HDMI between the TV and receiver (but I'm not too picky about that). Any good recommendations under $200? Under $300? Under $400? (I want to compare the features that I need to the prices.)

[MrBoylan]

I am looking to buy a receiver and want to connect devices via composite, component, and HDMI. I've read that with "stereo" receivers, for every connection type to the receiver (composite, component, HDMI), there has to be the same connections between the TV and the receiver. Is my understanding correct? Are there any good stereo receivers that have HDMI inputs?

Typically stereo receivers are made for those with older source components so you won't find too many stereo receivers with HDMI inputs. I don't know of any in the budget price range. But you can run home theater receivers (AVRs) in stereo mode if you like. On some, the auto-calibration routines will automatically disable any speakers that are not found. On others, you can just go in and manually turn off the center and/or surround speakers.

I've been looking at the features for several receivers and noticed that one might have "analog to HDMI upconversion" but not "component video upconversion." What is the difference between the two?

Typically "analog to HDMI upconversion" means that all analog inputs (composite, component and s-video) are transcoded to digital, then upconverted to a higher resolution over the HDMI output (usually 1080p). "Component video upconversion" normally means that composite and s-video connections are upconverted to 720p or 1080i over the component video outputs. That's a pretty useless feature these days as most displays have HDMI inputs.

But you don't actually *need* upconversion, necessarily. You need "transcoding." Transcoding means the receiver will transcode an analog video signal to a digital video signal (HDMI). The Denon receiver I recommended in the other thread does transcoding from analog video to digital HDMI output (480i to 480p). Your TV would then scale the 480p digital signal to its native resolution (in this case, your TV does the "upconversion").

A receiver that does "analog to digital upconversion" means that it does transcoding from analog video to digital, and then it upconverts that signal, usually to 1080p outputting that upconverted signal through HDMI. But the cheaper receivers really don't do that great a job of upconversion, because they use very basic (cheap) video processors. Also, your TV isn't a 1080p TV. Your TV's native resolution is neither 720p nor 1080p (it's 1366x768 pixels), which means it will have to downconvert the 1080i or 1080p signal coming out of the receiver back down to the TV's native resolution. Or, if you set your receiver to 720p output, then the TV needs to do an additional scaling step to bring the signal up to 1366x768. You're really just as well served by a receiver like the Denon AVR-591 because it only does de-interlacing of the analog signal from 480i analog to 480p digital (HDMI) then lets the TV do the scaling up to its native resolution. And for HDMI connected source components, you can just pass those along in their native resolution to the TV.

I'd really like some recommendations for receivers. I want composite, component, and HDMI inputs, would prefer to only have 1 HDMI between the TV and receiver (but I'm not too picky about that). Any good recommendations under $200? Under $300? Under $400? (I want to compare the features that I need to the prices.)

I stand by my recommendation for the Denon AVR-591 - $299 on OneCall via the link I posted in the other thread:

Denon AVR-591 on OneCall


You're not going to find anything better for that price. The current crop of entry-level Onkyo receivers seem to have some reliability issues, from the user reviews I've seen. The Yamaha and Pioneer receivers are decent (OK, more than decent) but they are a bit more expensive when you start getting into upconversion.

The Denon AVR-591 has one composite, one component and 4 HDMI inputs and one HDMI output, plus two digital audio inputs. Because it does analog video to digital transcoding, it only needs a single HDMI cable between receiver and TV. If you need more inputs, then you'd probably have to switch over to another brand. The Denon AVR-991 has more inputs, but it's over $800.

Other worthy contenders in or near your price range would be the Pioneer VSX-920 (around $300 on Amazon):

Pioneer VSX-920K on Amazon.com

We reviewed its big brother the VSX-1020 and found that it offered strong performance and some unique features. The 920 has many of the same features including 1080p upconversion of analog video sources and all the other bells and whistles you'd expect.

Another to consider would be the Yamaha RX-V665BL - this is a great receiver from the 2009 model year with excellent sound quality, plenty of inputs, and video upconversion. The only significant drawback is, since it's an HDMI 1.3 receiver - it does not support 3D passthrough. So if you want to hook up a Blu-ray 3D player in the future (to a 3D-compatible TV, which yours is not, of course), then this receiver will not be able to pass through the 3D signal. But that's why this $600 receiver is selling on Amazon for under $275 delivered. If you don't care about 3D, this is an excellent choice:

Yamaha RX-V665 on Amazon

Of the current Yamaha 2010 models, you have to go all the way up to the RXV-567 to get analog to digital transcoding or upconversion. I'm sure it's a fine receiver, but even on Amazon, it's over $400. Here's our link:

Yamaha RX-V567 on Amazon.com

Good luck and let us know what you end up with...

-Chris

[cheetosandmovies]

How does the Denon AVR-1610 compare to the 591? It doesn't upconvert all analog to HDMI, only 480i to 480p (this doesn't mean anything to me, though). Will it let me connect the receiver with my TV with just one cable, an HDMI?

[MrBoylan]

How does the Denon AVR-1610 compare to the 591? It doesn't upconvert all analog to HDMI, only 480i to 480p (this doesn't mean anything to me, though). Will it let me connect the receiver with my TV with just one cable, an HDMI?

The AVR-1610 and the AVR-591 are comparable models in features and functions except the AVR-1610 is one year older so it lacks 3D passthrough and Audio Return Channel support (HDMI 1.3 vs. HDMI 1.4). Performance of the two would be pretty similar otherwise. The AVR-591 has only one component input while the 1610 has two. But the AVR-1610 has only 3 HDMI inputs where the AVR-591 has 4. Considering all modern components have HDMI outputs, this would be the more beneficial input to have. Both of these receivers do analog video to digital video (HDMI) transcoding so you will only need one cable from the receiver to the TV, with all your video sources plugged into the receiver.

But the 3D passthrough compatibility and Audio Return Channel support on the AVR-591 make it a much more future-proof investment. 3D passthrough is required if you want to upgrade to a 3D TV some day. And Audio Return Channel means that you can actually get sound from a compatible TV using that same single HDMI cable that you use to connect the receiver to the TV for the video sources. This requires that your TV also support HDMI 1.4 (which yours does not as it is a 2009 model year TV). But assuming this is not the last TV you ever own, it's a good idea to get a receiver that will support future upgrades.

-CB

[fishman463]

Just got a gigantic HDMI LED LCD TV and my old Denon receiver just won't cut it anymore. My DirecTV receiver has comnposit and S-Video out and my current receiver does not do any sort of scaling or anything. I want to be able to plug in my HDMI DVD (Denon), my DirecTV and my Wii and have just one cable running to my TV. Will the AVR 591 do that? Is there something more current that will do the same thing in the same price range? Sorry to dig up an old thread and thanks in advance for any info you may have.

[MrBoylan]

Just got a gigantic HDMI LED LCD TV and my old Denon receiver just won't cut it anymore. My DirecTV receiver has comnposit and S-Video out and my current receiver does not do any sort of scaling or anything. I want to be able to plug in my HDMI DVD (Denon), my DirecTV and my Wii and have just one cable running to my TV. Will the AVR 591 do that? Is there something more current that will do the same thing in the same price range? Sorry to dig up an old thread and thanks in advance for any info you may have.

The AVR591 would work but it has been discontinued and may be hard to find. Also, the AVR-591 does not have any scaling or upconversion. It simply outputs analog video sources over HDMI via analog to digital video HDMI transcoding. The scaling and upconversion would have to occur in the TV itself. TVs don't typically have the world's best upconversion and scaling.

I'd recommend the (also soon to be discontinued) AVR-1912, which does analog video to HDMI transcoding or the brand new replacement for that, the AVR-1913 which does analog to digital video upconversion to 1080p.

• AVR-1913
• AVR-1912

But if you got a giant TV, then you are definitely going to want to upgrade your DIRECTV box and service to one that supports HD. If your box only has composite and s-video out, it is a standard definition box. No amount of scaling or upconversion in the world is going to make the compressed standard def 4:3 satellite signal look OK on a large screen 16:9 HDTV. The bigger the screen, the worse a low quality source will look.

Also, I'd recommend getting the component video adapter for the Wii if you don't have it already. It doesn't make it high def, but it does make it progressive (480p) output which will improve the diagonal lines.

Good luck and let us know if you have any other questions.

-Chris